Discussion about linux-rpi rebrand

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Discussion about linux-rpi rebrand

Postby graysky » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:54 pm

MOD NOTE - created this thread and moved replies here.
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby m040601 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:21 pm

Thanks for posting this, and your commitment to this project.

This renaming is the kind of information that in my view is an absolutely priority to communicate well and timely. You did it perfectly, even the "friendly reminder to optionally diff ..." . But here is a request to make it happen sooner, next time something similar happens.

I understand ArchlinuxARM ressources and infrastructure cannot be compared to Archlinux x86 (personnel, mailing lists, forum, wiki, etc).


Here' a couple of suggestions. Things like this should be:

1. posted/pinned to the top of the boards. Made visually prominent
2. An effort should be made to communicate it, way before the changes are made..

1. It should not only be posted in "Announcements" it should be pinned, so that it shows up prominently in the "Annoucements" box. I find the graphics and css theme of this forum too tiny for noticing small icons Or maybe create a new section ? "Important package changes" ? "News" ? Just like arch linux x86.

There is also difference in scope, urgency and importancy in a vague category like "Annoucements".

For example, current items there like:

- "forum restructuring" : important, but not "eternal", should be removed/unpinned after expire.
- "rules of the forum": important, and "permanent

Or for example items not there, but that should be there or in a similar named ("NEWS" ?)

- a big package update/restructure

This one besides "important" and "mandatory reading" also as a character of much more "urgent" and even "critical"

- big changes/updates the content/structure/defaults of the images/rootfs in https://mirror.archlinuxarm.org/os/

One can sort them by "Last modified" but maybe a very simple CHANGELOG.txt could uploaded there ?
I DONT definetely mean a git log or big literary prose or similar, causing extra work. Bu just a simple imaginary example:

https://de3.mirror.archlinuxarm.org/os/CHANGELOG.txt

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '2024
november: big changes, important kernel version update. Make sure to check the forums
october: now shipping with kernel 6.xyz
2023
march: ssh keys changed from RSA to ED25519 standard
april: raspberry rootfsnow comes with systemd-resolved preconfigure/enabled etc instead of netctl
2022
february: the default user is now called "belly" instead of "'alarm"
january: wifi not enabled by default
october: now shipping with kernel 5.xyz
')




I say this, because I was just doing an "innocent" pacman -Syu and a "yay -Syu" . Didnt notice any important message scrolling by and ended up later with a:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', ' Missing AUR Packages: linux-raspberrypi')

Got puzzled. Started to panic. What ???

It took me some time to understand what was happening, searching the AUR, github repo, lotz of pacman -F queries etc.

I must have catched the time when the mirror was in the middle of an update, because only later after another "pacman -Syuw" did I got this one:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', ':: Replace linux-raspberrypi with core/linux-rpi-legacy? [Y/n]')


Anyway. Good that I ended up here. So now I understand it. But it was not:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')kernel rename coming soon


It was "kernel rename" already happened.

I would prefer to not have done the update, and then later read about it. In situations like this I want to read first and update later. I want to have the time to carefully check and diff my custom /boot/config.txt, cmdline.txt and the READMES in /boot/overlays.

Please do not take this as criticism. It is just the feedback of an average and interested user taking good care to always read the instructions on the package. I understand perfectly that this is the price and risks one has to pay for running a rolling release distro. But even after many, many years on Arch, I am not a guru for whom all of these changes are 100% "natural" and self evident. I need time to stop and digest them. I'm part of the 80% of users, not of the 20% of embeded developer working on this as their daily job. So, I kind of "get there" eventually just like anyone else. It just happens slower.
Last edited by m040601 on Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:20 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby m040601 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:48 pm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')linux-raspberrypi --> linux-rpi-legacy (RPi 1, 2, and Zero)
linux-raspberrypi4 --> linux-rpi (RPi 3, 4, 400, Zero W, and Zero 2 W


Quick question about the Pi Zero's and "legacy"
I dont have them but I'm planning to. Both old ("legacy") and new versions ("Zero 2").


Been following the forum and updates to the new "Zero 2". I understand it's a 64bit system like the Rpi3.

Little confused here about the "Pi Zero" and "Pi Zero W" though.
Shouldnt they both be on "linux-rpi-legacy" as they both are 32bit only systems ?


And by the way, this "legacy" thing. I'm curious for how many more years can I assume to be able to continue running Archlinux ARM on my year old Pi's, ex, Zero, and Rpi 2 1.1. I'm one of those that doesnt like to throw stuff in trash, and go running to buy the shinny new latest.


Assuming the the Raspberry Pi keeps behaving like it has, keepin up its promisses and updating the software "upstream" packages for kernel and firmware.

Assuming also that they will keep lunching new models, revisions so that in, say, 5 years, we'll have a huge number in the acumulated list of different hardware models since the first one 2012.

Can I assume that the Archlinux ARM project distro will still be providing support, for example, for the 2014 Rpi2 and 2018 Rpi zero, in the year 2028 ?

Will the complexity of providing all these images/repos increase exponentially with the number of hardware models ? different arm versions ? Will it place an excessive burden on the infrastructure/build servers (compared with the number of interested users), so that somehow it will be scraped sooner or later ? Will it it depend if some one screams "please no" ?
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby Synch » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:56 am

One point of confusion I ran into: the RPi 3 is supposed to use linux-rpi, but the installation instructions for the RPi 3 use the installation image for the RPi 2 (ArchLinuxARM-rpi-2-latest.tar.gz), which uses linux-rpi-legacy. That probably explains why pacman wanted to upgrade me to legacy. So I aborted and installed linux-rpi instead, which is working fine, but I worry what might happen to less-observant users.

I should add that my installation is on a Zero 2. I didn't see installation instructions specifically for it, so I went with RPi 3 because I know the Zero 2 chip is based on it.
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby graysky » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:28 am

@m040601 - Thank you for the feedback. Arch Linux does have a news feed whereas this project does not. I will continue to use the Announcement section here as a surrogate. To your point #1, we could pin posts but frankly, this section is rarely used so it doesn't take too much time to identify new content (for example, not counting this post, there have only been eight here in 2021). To your point #2, I agree major changes should be communicated well in advance before they happen. I do not consider this package rename major honestly as pacman handles it with you answering "Y" to the question. Lastly, less experienced users should read pacnew_and_pacsave. This is true on Arch Linux as well as on Arch ARM.

I had a typo in the original post. I corrected it thank you for pointing it out. To be clear: the Pi Zero and Zero W are both armv6h only due to older hardware (they use linux-rpi-legacy) whereas the Pi Zero 2 W is much more recent (it should use linux-rpi whether armv7h or aarch64).

Why the naming? Because it represented an easy way to identify packages without using a number which many including myself found to be confusing. These two kernel packages support all of the RPi hardware. I cannot predict the future with respect to future support.

@Synch - Good point we will update accordingly.
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby erffrfez » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:01 am

another suggestion: can the notification : ":: Replace linux-raspberrypi with core/linux-rpi-legacy? [Y/n]" have a link added, pointing to this forum post?

":: Replace linux-raspberrypi with core/linux-rpi-legacy? [Y/n] ( see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15683 )"
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby quark » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:43 am

this move overwrote my custom kernel when pacman -Syyu.
also breaks boot with gpu_mem=16 , spent WAY too much time today to find that this was the issue, with a pi that I don't have access to video out.
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Re: Raspberry Pi kernel rename coming soon

Postby graysky » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:25 pm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('quark', 't')his move overwrote my custom kernel when pacman -Syyu.
also breaks boot with gpu_mem=16 , spent WAY too much time today to find that this was the issue, with a pi that I don't have access to video out.


This shouldn't affect a custom kernel for multiple reasons including you needed to allow pacman to do it.
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Re: Gripes about linux-rpi rebrand

Postby quark » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:45 pm

well clearly. I'm in testing with this platform atm, currently compiling the kernel for raspberry 2.
but I was curious if it actually will "upgrade" my custom kernel on the zero, and it surely did.
I didn't imply it did it without me being able to do anything about it. I'm mentioning it because it shouldn't do it at all. that's the issue I'm reporting.
let alone the gpumem stuff, which in all fairness it did make a new config.txt but no mention of this breakage. I copy/pasted my config back to the stock config.txt and pi's fail to boot.
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Re: Gripes about linux-rpi rebrand

Postby quark » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:49 pm

just to be clear, at each package I installed with -Syyu since I always default to it, it wanted to upgrade my kernel, and I had to hit "N" on that each time, both the kernel and headers, to avoid it overwriting my custom kernel, but still be able to add new packages.
it shouldn't offer a kernel upgrade over a custom kernel. I suppose (hope) this isn't an issue with custom kernels on this naming version? will test this today and report back if it happens. I do have a custom string.
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